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000304_news@columbia.edu_Sun Nov 4 05:29:06 1995.msg
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From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc
Subject: Re: how to get DOS kermit c source code?
Date: 3 Nov 1995 23:29:06 -0600
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organi[sz]ation
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References: <45pk9f$so3@info.bta.net.cn> <1995Oct20.092232.64321@cc.usu.edu> <46hf3j$li3@Mercury.mcs.com> <46jurh$c8l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>
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In article <46jurh$c8l@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>,
Frank da Cruz <fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> wrote:
>> Once upon a time I thought that was the philosopy
>>behind kermit too.
>It was, but times changed. I think you are missing the difference between
>the Kermit project and various other projects on the net that you
>associate with "free software". The difference is: we are working on this
>full time, and with some of us, it is our real job -- even our career.
I don't have any objection to commercial versions especially for
the flashy interactive stuff. I just miss the old standby file
transfer and script driven communications utility that you could
count on everyone having. In fact I'd like it better if terminal
emulations had never been added. If you watch the other newsgroups
you'll see questions about how to script telnet sessions show up
every few weeks. I haven't seen anyone but myself point out that
kermit does this naturally and on several platforms, and any of
them can drive just about any program on the same or a different
platform. The usual answer is to get 'expect' which only runs on
unix and then you have to learn tcl to use it. Kermit can do a
loopback telnet through a script to run things that need a pty
or controlling terminal and do anything expect could do. I guess
everyone else just thinks of kermit as a terminal emulator these
days.
>We
>are here for the long haul, as long as there is a demand, to develop and
>support Kermit protocol and software. You can't say that about most of
>the other software that you cite. The BSD project is shut down, the
>people scattered to the wind.
But BSDI, freeBSD and netBSD seem to be going strong.
>Many of the other examples are one-shot
>deals -- the people who created them moved on to something else -- you
>can't get good, dependable support for that type of software. You can for
>Kermit.
Some are, some aren't. Most GNU utilities are updated periodically and
you can get commercial support. Sometimes you see a dramatic improvement
when someone new takes over a project that someone else consided
finished.
>By the way, if you or anybody else wants to contribute code, make
>improvements, etc, nothing is stopping you. But you have to leave
>administration of our copyright up to us, because long after you have
>moved on to something else, we will still need to be here.
I don't mean to imply that you aren't doing a good job, but other
people/groups are managing to keep packages updated while allowing
the code to be freely distributed. The problem is that the value
of kermit as a file transfer/scripting utility depends largely
on it already being available at the other end of your connection
and the distribution policy makes this unlikely, especially in
the places you need kermit (i.e. no ftp...). Besides, at the moment
the most popular communications platform is probably Windows 3.x
running a dial-up or network winsock which seems to be a gaping
hole in the kermit product line. There are lots of other terminal
emulators to run over winsock so I don't care about that part but
I'd like to be able to run the same scripts that the unix/dos versions
can. If it weren't for the distribution restrictions, someone else might
have done a quick and dirty compile of the script and file tranfer
code to run over winsock by now.
Les Mikesell
les@mcs.com